The final straw? [Archive] - Audi Forums

: The final straw?


WVMTNBIKER
06-28-2011, 07:06 PM
:( So in this latest series of bad luck, my son and I took his newly aquired '02 A4 quattro 3.0 automatic with 117K on the clock to the "stealership" yesterday.
We had a check engine light etc, but you can read my other Newbie Questions I posted earlier about the car.

Today they call and say they found three codes:
#3 cylinder misfiring i.e. bad plug/coil pack? I told them replace all the plugs and install the new coil packs I got from Jason on this forum.

Code #2: catalytic convertor code? Maybe from misfiring plug?

Code #3: torque converter. They say maybe from misfire and cat code.:confused:

So instead of calling us BEFORE starting the timing belt like the agreement we signed saying so, they just jumped right in and started the timing belt job. At this point we have no idea if the torque converter is bad or not.:mad: This could mean more big $$$$ to repair in this wild car purchase. I am having them change the tranny fluid and filter anyways just to see if this would help. Can't hurt. This way EVERYthing is either changed, replaced or prayed upon!:rolleyes: Guess we will find out more tomorrow. I don't think we would have done the belt if they would have performed the diagnostics first to determine the real cause of the run at temp shudder/shake/no power deal and called us to say plugs are fine, coil packs are fine, cat convt is fine, torque converter shot.:eek::mad::(:confused:

So, with all this said, should the torque converter go out with 117K miles? Could all these code be interactive and effect each other? Again, runs cold great, runs/shudders terrible when at temp. A bad sign???:(:confused: Golly, I sure don't want to have to pull the tranny and replace the dumb converter. I'll have a fortune in this so-called "sweet" deal per one moderator on this forum. I'm a bit disgusted at this point.:mad: Help me before I go mad!!!!

Boy Scout
06-29-2011, 08:43 AM
I HATE hearing stories like this one ....

The sting of this experience will never go away.

I would get the thing patched up and sell it ... it must be cursed ... either way, the car will probably never bring you any joy ...

WVMTNBIKER
06-29-2011, 12:23 PM
I HATE hearing stories like this one ....

The sting of this experience will never go away.

I would get the thing patched up and sell it ... it must be cursed ... either way, the car will probably never bring you any joy ...

No, just the luck of the draw. It's a beautiful car that looks like no one ever, ever abused it. And I mean interior/exterior finish, cleanliness, wear and tear etc. are just most excellent. I believe the typical Audi owner is not one to destroy their vehicles. Rather, they tend to be more upscale folks wanting a nice ride etc. And I think Audi owners, like BMW, Mercedes etc are people who generally do not abuse their vehicles and for the most part actually care for them. Guess we'll see how this all shakes out, eh?

Boy Scout
06-29-2011, 01:17 PM
I hope it all works out for you.

Jhatch
06-30-2011, 02:57 PM
Could all have been related to the coil packs though I have a tough time connecting the torque converter diagnostic. Audi did a recall on the coil packs a while back. Before I had them replaced I had a run of similar, though not quite as extreme, experiences. Once they were replaced the car ran great with no other issues. Mine is an 04 A4 with the 3.0 V6 and the 6 speed manual (hence my disclaimer on the torque converter). This all happened to me at about 80k miles and now is at 118k many happy miles.

WVMTNBIKER
06-30-2011, 09:29 PM
Hallelujah! Finally got some good news for once.

The car is 95% complete. The timing belt job is complete. Cam gears fine. New plugs and coil packs solved the multiple misfires and cleared all codes. Car now runs great; shudder/vibration/miss are gone.:) Oil and filter changed. Tranny fluid and filter about to be changed in the next day or so when part arrives at stealership. Acutally, they have been quite good about the whole thing.
Also got 500 buck back from selling dealer as a gesture of good faith b/c the car flopped 20 minutes out from the dealership we bought it from.:eek:

Both inner CV boots shot but joints are tight etc. Service guy wants us to drive it a bit more just to make sure that the very small vibration is in fact from one of them and not a driveshaft.:confused:

The service advisor actually said we got a really nice A4 and should service my son for years to come. Well, it should b/c of all the new parts. When we actually pick it up, I will update you how it truly runs and put this issue to bed. WooHoo. Sign me one happy A4 owner!

Thank you all for the helpful info b/c it all helped a lot.

Jhatch
07-01-2011, 12:05 AM
Glad to read that it's coming together for you. I think you're going to really likenthe car once you have it back.

Cheers!

Boy Scout
07-01-2011, 09:53 AM
cool on the good news ...

JoeScro
07-01-2011, 02:08 PM
there are couple of sites that I use before I take my car to the mechanic for serious issues. Check this one out its a gov site: Recalls.gov (http://www.recalls.gov/nhtsa.html)
and this other one is good too
Auto Recalls - View the Latest Car Recalls Online (http://www.autorecalls.us/)

I like to keep up to date on issues other ppl are having that way the companies might do a recall if a lot of ppl area having the same issues as you are.

ECS Tuning-Audi
07-01-2011, 03:11 PM
Unfortunately the one draw back of owning these cars is the maintenance. If it gets neglected large repair bills are often the out come.

Fortunately once the major maintenance areas are addressed the vehicle should be very solid and problem free!

I felt the very same way with my car when a bunch of stuff happened to need replacing all at once. Since I've done that all I've had to do is routine oil changes.

Jason

JoeScro
07-01-2011, 03:35 PM
Unfortunately the one draw back of owning these cars is the maintenance. If it gets neglected large repair bills are often the out come.

Jason

I agree with Jason since most of the killing performance cars are over seas the parts are most of the cost plus the inflated dealership man hours.

WVMTNBIKER
07-06-2011, 10:00 PM
Finally, got the car back from the stealership today. Everything done now i.e. timing belt and associated labor/materials, oil/filter change, tranny fluid/filter change, spark plugs, coolant, air filter etc.

However, those nice coil packs from Jason at ECS? that I TOLD them to install did NOT get installed. Why can folks follow instructions?:mad: I still have just a tiny bit of miss/shudder under acceleration but only at certain rpms and gas pedal pressure. Exceed that point and all is smooth. Car has a pretty good vibration at idle. Motor mounts maybe? Hmmmm...I wonder if they would have installed those packs how much better the car would run?:confused:

So basically, $2400.00 later, I have a nice tuned up car(my son does that is) that still has the miss/hesitation/shudder we took it in for; the timing belt job was a given. So my son is going to install the coil packs next week. We filled the tank with Shell 93 octane tonight on top of a bottle of Lucas fuel injector cleaner for added performance. :D PS: there are NO codes showing now, check engine light off too.

You can bet that the stealership will be getting a nice phone call from me first thing in the morning.:mad::mad:

mullardel34
07-07-2011, 07:05 AM
Be suitably cautious when replacing the coil-packs on your engine. In particular, the 3.0L V6 coil-packs are kind of a ***** to get at; you need to remove those little TOR-X screws holding the harness down or you will break the connector to the coil-packs. You REALLY don't want to do that, so just take your time. It takes a T15 TOR-X (super small) screwdriver bit to remove the harness-retention screws.

Position the head of a flat-blade screwdriver underneath the top of the coil-pack, pressing down on the screwdriver's handle to gently pry the coil-pack loose from the top of the underlying spark-plug. Once you have loosened the coil pack, gently pull it up and out. Press down on the plastic notch at the base of the coil-pack's wiring-harness connector to release the coil-pack, and remove the coil-pack from the wiring harness.

Click/insert the new coil-pack into the wiring-harness connector, and gently slide the coil-pack back down on top of the spark-plug. Press and click it into place to secure it.

Re-install the T15 harness-retention screws. Just take your time, don't force any connectors, don't over-torque anything and you'll get through your coil-pack replacement task.

When considering engine-mount replacements, don't forget to replace the engine snub mount (located under the nose of the V6 engine). The engine snub mount controls drive-line lash and is often overlooked. If you need to replace the main engine mounts, go for the RS4 engine mounts; they're about the same price, but offer enhanced performance and longevity.

Good luck on your continuing renovations for your machine... :cool:

WVMTNBIKER
07-08-2011, 09:09 PM
Be suitably cautious when replacing the coil-packs on your engine. In particular, the 3.0L V6 coil-packs are kind of a ***** to get at; you need to remove those little TOR-X screws holding the harness down or you will break the connector to the coil-packs. You REALLY don't want to do that, so just take your time. It takes a T15 TOR-X (super small) screwdriver bit to remove the harness-retention screws.

Position the head of a flat-blade screwdriver underneath the top of the coil-pack, pressing down on the screwdriver's handle to gently pry the coil-pack loose from the top of the underlying spark-plug. Once you have loosened the coil pack, gently pull it up and out. Press down on the plastic notch at the base of the coil-pack's wiring-harness connector to release the coil-pack, and remove the coil-pack from the wiring harness.

Click/insert the new coil-pack into the wiring-harness connector, and gently slide the coil-pack back down on top of the spark-plug. Press and click it into place to secure it.

Re-install the T15 harness-retention screws. Just take your time, don't force any connectors, don't over-torque anything and you'll get through your coil-pack replacement task.

When considering engine-mount replacements, don't forget to replace the engine snub mount (located under the nose of the V6 engine). The engine snub mount controls drive-line lash and is often overlooked. If you need to replace the main engine mounts, go for the RS4 engine mounts; they're about the same price, but offer enhanced performance and longevity.

Good luck on your continuing renovations for your machine... :cool:

Thank you kind sir for all your great advice. We did change the coil packs tonight and there was a considerable change in engine performance for sure. And they were easy, esp using Jason for ECS coil pack removal tool. Worth the money.
We dropped a clip down in the engine bay and took the belly pan off. Ah Hah, low and behold the front engine snub mount was totally GONE. I mean there is nothing left of it. It appears that the front end has to come back off to change it???:confused: I cannot believe the "stealership" did not see that when they had all that off for the timing belt.:mad: Idiots I say. Even though they gave us a 12K mile/12 month warranty on their work, I don't plan on taking it back to these lack luster techs. What a shame.
But the car sure does run a whole lot better now. I think the vibration is coming from the front mount for sure.:eek::mad: Just really, really ticks me off. And we were soooooo close....
One last thing: the check engine light came on again last night. Why? Everything has been changed excepting the O2 sensor. I'm frustrated.

mullardel34
07-09-2011, 05:39 AM
Excellent progress!!! And don't you just love the ECS coil-pack removal tool? It's one of my favorites and I thought about mentioning it, but there are a number of forum members who consider it unmanly to use such a convenient tool; personally, I find wearing a "hair-shirt" to be far too warm while working on my car... :D

I'm not surprised that the engine snub mount had largely disintegrated; the bugger had vanished on both of our A4's by the time we purchased them with about 100K-miles on their respective odometers. We installed the ECS upgraded engine snub mount on both cars and it's been very effective and it's still there as of about a month ago... :cool:

It sounds like you now need to locate a local properly-trained and properly-equipped independent Audi technician to help you in managing the maintenance of your machine.

Continued good luck to you and your son on the new ride... :)

WVMTNBIKER
07-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Excellent progress!!! And don't you just love the ECS coil-pack removal tool? It's one of my favorites and I thought about mentioning it, but there are a number of forum members who consider it unmanly to use such a convenient tool; personally, I find wearing a "hair-shirt" to be far too warm while working on my car... :D

I'm not surprised that the engine snub mount had largely disintegrated; the bugger had vanished on both of our A4's by the time we purchased them with about 100K-miles on their respective odometers. We installed the ECS upgraded engine snub mount on both cars and it's been very effective and it's still there as of about a month ago... :cool:

It sounds like you now need to locate a local properly-trained and properly-equipped independent Audi technician to help you in managing the maintenance of your machine.

Continued good luck to you and your son on the new ride... :)

Yep, it's a great ride to be sure. So, the big question: how hard is it to remove that darn front engine snub mount? Can it be done w/o removing the entire front end again? Can it be done by my son and me? We do have an official Bentley service manual hardcover, but you seem to be the authority here, so I'm asking.:);)

mullardel34
07-11-2011, 09:33 AM
I'm no authority, just an end-user trying to keep my machine aggressively maintained...

The engine snub mount is definitely not a DIY project, in my opinion; you have to pull the front bumper and then move the lock-carrier forwards several inches to change out the engine snub mount. This is exactly the sort of project for which you really need to locate a trusted local independent Audi facility. A trained Audi technician with the proper tools can probably knock-out the snub mount replacement in a few hours (as I recall from the billing for my snub mount replacement a couple of years ago...). :cool:

mullardel34
07-11-2011, 09:40 AM
Here's a link for B6 engine snub mount installation from APR (one of the after-market snub mount vendors); the document should give you some idea of the work involved.

http://www.goapr.com/Audi/support/b6_snub_mount.pdf

The procedure outlined in this document is considerably shorter than the one documented in my Bentley CD-ROM-based manual; your mileage may vary, caveat emptor... :D

WVMTNBIKER
07-12-2011, 06:32 AM
Here's a link for B6 engine snub mount installation from APR (one of the after-market snub mount vendors); the document should give you some idea of the work involved.

http://www.goapr.com/Audi/support/b6_snub_mount.pdf

The procedure outlined in this document is considerably shorter than the one documented in my Bentley CD-ROM-based manual; your mileage may vary, caveat emptor... :D

Wow, what a great link. If only it would be this easy.:rolleyes: But the link shows it as removing the snub mount from the side of the motor, so I don't think the bumper removal is necessary? I will try and look at the car in the next few days myself underneath and see what I see. Thanks again. At least I'm gaining ground some.;)