Keys and Keyless Entry

[SchuylerAvant]

Is it possible to get the switchblade style key and remote combo to work with a 1997 A6 Avant Quattro?

I'm looking to replace my remote, as it's pretty beat, and I thought it might be cool to have a switchblade style key and remote combo?

Seen a few places on line that sell replacement fobs. I figure if I can get a SB with an uncut key, the Audi Dealership could make the copy.

Any Thoughts?

Happy Spring! :-)

KM

[ini]

Yes, you should be able to.

As long as you have RF remote locking, (or an RF pump) you can use the flip-key system.

New blade, sync remote, clone 'static' immob capsule from existing key. (only if you have an immobiliser)

[SchuylerAvant]

Originally Posted by ini

Yes, you should be able to.

As long as you have RF remote locking, (or an RF pump) you can use the flip-key system.

New blade, sync remote, clone 'static' immob capsule from existing key. (only if you have an immobiliser)

Excellent. I'll give it a try. I have some co-workers with VWs and the Flip Key. I wonder, if I go through the steps of syncing one of their remotes to the car, I could verify that this is feasible or do you think it needs to be GENUINE AUDI and not a sister company...

I recall something about the "static immobiliser" from the manual, or maybe something on the internet, but I can't remember what that's about. Can you clue me in?

Thanks.

KM

[ini]

All the earlier type modern Audi keys have a Megamos type 13 transponder capsule inside them, it looks like a tiny glass pill with a miniature copper coil/circuit inside it. The transponder is powered up inductively by the reader coil when you turn the key.

The id 13 fixed or static transponder always emits the same relatively individual digital 'signal', which is in turn picked up through the reader coil around the ignition barrel.

A new transponder can be added with garage equipment, or vagcom if you have your SKC.

As they only have a 'static' code, they can be 'cloned', and the car see's all the copies as the same key/transponder.

Later keys have a 'rolling code' crypto type 48 transponder inside them, that changes code every time its used (more secure).

[SchuylerAvant]

Ini,
Thanks for both of your replies.

All the earlier type modern Audi keys have a Megamos type 13 transponder capsule inside them, it looks like a tiny glass pill with a miniature copper coil/circuit inside it. Is this inside the actual key?? or is it in the Fob Transmitter. "id 13, SKC, 'rolling code' crypto, RF pump, 'static' immob capsule " What? I'm in deep waters aren't I?

I don't know why this is all so confusing to me. I'm actually quite mechanically inclined... head gaskets, timing belts, rear ends, struts, ball joints, gauges and clusters... Electronics! There's the difference

I've done so much searching for answers to this question that apparently many others have as well and the only people who really have the "simple answer" want to be paid for that knowledge. i.e E-Bay etc...

Ini, don't get me wrong, you're the only one talking to me and I appreciate it. I feel that I am on a noble quest, dreaming the impossible dream... If we ever come to an actual conclusion, we could put it in the FAQs or I could post it on one of my web pages...

For the sake of simplicity, let's ONLY refer to Non Flip Remote Entry Fobs (FCC MZ2 410 816 4)
and the early Flip Keys with built in remote (FCC MZ2 410 816 6 4) Note the extra 6

My next question is: Does the Steel Key, Fob Transmitter or Car actually get re-programmed when switching to a new remote keyless entry? I would have to guess that it's actually the car that is being reprogrammed.

For instance: I install an automatic garage door opener... I can set dip switches in both the opener and the remote. The communication between the two devices is only one way. The remote talks to the opener, the opener does not talk back to the remote.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it would make more sense (to me) that the car is the device actually being reprogrammed, because the Fob Transmitter is the only thing sending out a signal and the nowhere have I read anything about opening up the F.T. and performing any work in there.

For Instance: When reprogramming... A key is placed in the ignition in the first position and, in some cases, as with a "flip key", the flip key is placed in the door lock and then all the magic happens with the pressing of buttons. (see below) Putting the the keys in the proper places and settings prepares the system (car's computer) for reprogramming. I would think that this holds true for the older "NON FLIP" FOB ONLY Transmitter types as well. Yes? It also seems to make sense with the way the Seats and Mirrors are programmed to a remote signal as well. The seat memory is changed, not the remote transmitter.

What I found in another Audi Forum: -

You need two keys to program the unit, one is left in the ignition while it is on, the other is then used to manually lock the driver's door to put it in "program" mode. Then you press the open button on the new keyfob in one-second increments (1 time = remote #1, 2 times = remote #2, etc. 5 times = deletes all remotes) This doesn't have anything to do with the seat memory function in this car. Then wait six seconds and press unlock once again. The new remote should work.

Sooo.. when I lock the door, does it make any difference if I leave the key in or take it out? Hmmmmm...

So, in short. WHAT is actually being reprogrammed?
Steel Key?
Transmitter?
Car Computer?
D) All or some of the above?

Thanks!!!!

And for my next trick I will try to upload an attachment! AND it's a PDF! woo hoo!

Cheers!

km

[ini]

The remote keys have three different components combined into one key.

1. The battery powered 'remote' part, that unlocks the doors.

2. The immobiliser transponder capsule, hidden in the plastic next to the blade on all keys. (even the tiny black plastic one)

3. The 'laser cut' Key blade, which is cut differently for the master and workshop, (only main & emergency keys open the glovebox)

Transponder capsule



Location in 'old' key



Location in flip key



The 'remote' part which unlocks the car is sync'ed with the central locking control unit via the 2 key method, or vagcom etc.
This is integrated into the RF central locking pump on most 94-00 Audi's.

The transponder part disables the ignition immobiliser and is sync'ed to the instruments/ECU, it allows the car to start for more than 2 seconds.
A new key can be synced to the car by the dealer, or with VAGCOM if you have your 'Secret Key Code'.

Here are a few useful links for Remote Central Locking:

B5 A4 Central Locking FAQ - VWAUDI Forum

"How To" The Remote Key Fob Thread - VWAUDI Forum

Ross-Tech: VAG-COM: Diagnostic Procedures

Ross-Tech: VAG-COM: Audi B5 VAG-COM Info

[SchuylerAvant]

Thanks,

I appreciate ll of the help.

km