Tyre Wear

[Sportingmac]

I am with you on this Quacker - brilliant car but........

....Two of my very good friends are trading in - one because he rolled it and was not impressed by how that happened and the other because he doesn't want to pay more out in tyres than he did for the car - so it's goodbye Audi brand - hello (again) Range Rover - both

..me - might go back to A6 Avant or Allroad - but it is a great car - shame about....

[Quacker]

Originally Posted by Sportingmac

I am with you on this Quacker - brilliant car but........

....Two of my very good friends are trading in - one because he rolled it and was not impressed by how that happened and the other because he doesn't want to pay more out in tyres than he did for the car - so it's goodbye Audi brand - hello (again) Range Rover - both

..me - might go back to A6 Avant or Allroad - but it is a great car - shame about....

My great concern is that if I don't cut my losses quickly then the used value of these potentially great cars will dive. Who will want these cars when they are four years old or older except the original owner when they consider the running costs, especially the very regular replacement of tyres?
Audi, if they are a serious car company concerned about one of their premium product lines and its image, should resolve this problem with the utmost urgency. My betting is that they will change the four wheel drive control system before long but leave existing owners high and dry. What they should do is quickly instigate a remedial program, whatever it takes, no quible. If they don't they don't deserve their customers. There are plenty of alternatives available from companies that want the business.

Audi wouldn't be the first car company to lose the plot. Just look at what happened to Mercedes who are generally now considered to be no better than Ford cars due to cost cutting and poor customer care.
In fact it is generally considered that most other brands have now overtaken Mercedes in quality and reliability which is why their UK showrooms are as quiet as the grave and they have to pre-register cars in bulk to shift them.

A good reputation is hard won but easily lost. The Q7 is a potentially good car which I predict will be worth near scrap value [currently £200 per ton] by its seventh birthday due to potential owners at that time finding tyre replacement costs unacceptable and therefore not wanting the car.
Maybe Audi are arrogant enough to think that they can get away with this? They will find that unless they address the issue it will haunt them for years to come.

[Goodmove]

Quacker I live out in the sticks down country lanes so do mixed types of driving. I do accept that 18000 miles isn't brilliant but then it is a very heavy car on very grippy tyres. I've had an L200 pickup do 48000 on Bridgestones but that is a different vehicle and definately didn't have the same grip levels. I have van drivers working for me with identical vans (astras) whose tyre wear differs from 12000 to 35000 miles on the same tyres but depending on drivers. Good grip and long tread life is an immposibility, the tyre manufaturers just balance the two: more grip less life or more life less grip. If it was any other way you would have F1 levels of grip and never need to replace the tyres.

[Sportingmac]

If I get to 18000 miles I will be reasonably content - I expect that 75% (legal lmits) of the tyre will still be good at 18000 miles - but my outer edges are now in the limit at 10000 miles. I think that is the issue that we are having with Audi. They say the camber etc is within spec - but when I had it checked independently it was out - mmmhhhh.

BTW - Pneus tyres (online) offer tyre insurance with their tyres for a few pounds extra - usual liability - punctures, malformed etc BUT will change the other tyre on the same axle if it is worn enough to merit a change at the same time as your punctured tyre. Low probability and low cost - but worth doing since I have had to change 2 tyres with embedded nails after trips to the local waste recycling centre.

[Quacker]

Originally Posted by Goodmove

Quacker I live out in the sticks down country lanes so do mixed types of driving. I do accept that 18000 miles isn't brilliant but then it is a very heavy car on very grippy tyres. I've had an L200 pickup do 48000 on Bridgestones but that is a different vehicle and definately didn't have the same grip levels. I have van drivers working for me with identical vans (astras) whose tyre wear differs from 12000 to 35000 miles on the same tyres but depending on drivers. Good grip and long tread life is an immposibility, the tyre manufaturers just balance the two: more grip less life or more life less grip. If it was any other way you would have F1 levels of grip and never need to replace the tyres.

You put the emphasis on it being a tyre issue. I think it is mainly a car issue with soft tyres being secondary. Either way I can't see this car ever achieving 12000 miles on a set of four let alone 18000.
After owning several cars, including a Range Rover and a Land Cruiser which manage well over 30,000 miles on a set, the Audi wearing all tyres out at every 10,000 miles or so is just not acceptable. They don't grip 'that' well.

[AudiQ7]

Hi All,

I had one of the early S-line Q7's back in Nov 06 and the first set of front tyres lasted about 6,000 miles before Audi after some haggling agreed to refund the replacement price. To be fair I think this was more about being one of the first to report the issue and so they were more on user error!!! or should I say 'driving style' until various other reports started to flood in....

Being low mileage the car is only now coming up to around 13,000; and guess what the front tyres need replacing again. So before I went back to Audi I thought I would have a chat with Goodyear. They have looked at this very very closely and here are the facts they have found which makes interesting reading...

Firstly Goodyear Eagle F1's of various profiles are used on a number of similar weight and sized vehicles to the Q7 and all of these deliver very good mileage to their customers.

It turns out on the Q7, Audi have fiddled with the alignment and geometry and gone for a setup that you see on some high end sports cars where the wheels are angled to improve handling/cornering.

So the official line is that the "tyres are wearing as they are presented to the road". Obviously Goodyear have to be careful what they say as Audi are an important customer.

So Audi could decide to change the reccomended factory wheel alignment and geometry settings, but would have to give up a little on the handling of the car, obviously there are many other things they could do to compensate for this. My personal opinion is that would be more likely to happen on a subtle updated version of the car. For brand new cars that is not uncommon and I guess as early buyers of a completely brand new car there is always a risk of that happening. Whether any of those tweaks could be done via service etc to the older model is a mute point.

What I will say is that 6 - 10 K is completely unacceptable on this type of car compared to its direct competion and so Audi are going to have to do something very quickly before their reputation goes down the preverbal toilet. Range Rover, Mecedes and BMW etc etc must be having hysterics. Paying to replace tyres isn't sustainable, so something on the car is going to have to change... Unless they went for some rock hard tyres that could take the punishment, but they would give loads of other problems like road noise etc etc....

So dont give in and demand they pay for your tyres at least until you have done a good 20k+.

[Sportingmac]

Good advice AudiQ7. And a good piece of research with Goodyear too.

Your comments support the experience I had with my Sierra Cosworth. My tyres were feathering the outer edges quite badly after a refit - so we played around with the wheel alignment to see if we could cure the problem. We could stop the tyres feathering their edges but the handling went to pot - tried various settings but had to resort to a compromise. That said I did get 25+ miles out of them. Seems Audi have a similar problem to solve.

I also understand that the current Audi setting reflects the need to correct the steering alignment as the engine torque builds up. (where the wheels alignment are offset at rest but straighten up on the move - anyone help to explain better?). This is what is causing the outer edges to wear apparently. Any technical people on here care to take a stab at this explanation - and is it true?

[AudiQ7]

Not sure about the engine torque, as I say Goodyear say its more to do with going for the wheel alignment / geometry as I previously described, but on a 2 tonne + vehicle instead of some light sports car with a far lower centre of gravity etc etc!! And dont forget they have been designing and supplying tyres to large 4*4 vehicles for decades. You have to think that other leading manufacturers with 4*4 cars in their product range would have tested out such tricks, but obviously discounted them due to the tyre wear issues found.

Its easy to change at any decent tyre centre with the necessary rig and trained staff, but you dont want to deviate from the Audi reccommeded settings until they admit they need to be changed. Other wise they will probably just blame what you change!!!

Maybe someone should just go public with one of the leading motoring press magazines or consumer programmes and then Audi would get a bit of a 'rocket up their ass', so to speak.

[Quacker]

My first set wore unevenly due to the car being delivered with the geometry outside Audi's parameters but I was refused any compensation. The second set have worn very evenly with only the slightest hint of feathering. They still wore out within 11,000 miles of very tidy driving.
Its just not on. Those that think it acceptable frankly have a very loose grip on reality, the value of money and the performance of rival products.
If it were not my car I would have a good laugh about it. I wouldn't even consider it as a new or used purchase. I got stung once before with an Audi 90 quattro and it seems that I've done it again.

[Sportingmac]

I had a very quick response from Goodyear today. Nothing wrong with tyres - suspect the Audi set-up. To achieve the level of steering response that Audi push on their sales blurb it needs to be set as it is. Rather than compromise the steering agility and performance Audi has settled on a solution that eats tyres.

Spoke to Audi Customer Services - very helpful - told me about the goodwill gesture - 50% of replacement tyres - once only !!

Spoke to my local dealer - appreciates the dilema and thinks that setting can be adjusted to the limit s and this may improve wear.

Anyone want a Q& with a new set of tyres on? I suspect that residual values will be low on this car once the news filters out into the used markets.

Why didn't I listen to my other self - buy an A6 Avant instead.